Question: Last week you said something about objective realty, I can't remember what you said about it, does it exist?

    Does it exist?

    Is it possible for us to know...

    That's a whole different question, isn't it?

    Is it possible for us to know objective reality?

    Sure. Now what?

    Its simply knowing it in the sense you were just talking about? There's something iffy...

    Well, again, we have the joke of asking about one thing when we haven't said what the other thing is, okay?
    What is subjective reality?

    Are you asking me?

    Yep.

    Its what I think reality is.

    Right.

    What it looks like from here.

    Right. That's what everybody says subjective reality is, okay? Its my opinion. And that's all I can ever know, if you ask anybody, they claim that's the way it is. All you can ever know is your own opinion -- your own experience. And its said that's subjective reality.
    That's not what being subjective means, okay? Obviously, even if there is an objective reality everybody is going to experience it slightly differently because they wear a different body -- which means that the way that they sense whatever objective reality is is going to be slightly different than somebody in a different body. Not from point of view, which is what you're claiming subjectivity is, but just because the body is different.
    So, we all use the same word to refer to a particular set of sensations called the color brown. I will never know if what I call brown is the same as what you call brown and its irrelevant, isn't it?

    Yes.

    Because unless your senses just don't work with color, nobody ever argues whether its brown or not, isn't that right? I mean that's just one little way of looking at objective reality, isn't that correct? I'll never know whether my actual experience of brown is the same as your experience of brown but we can agree that this word refers to something that we always say, ``Yeah, that's brown.''
    So we've made up this weird thing because some people have talked about objectivity, we had no idea what it meant, because we didn't want to find out what subjectivity meant, okay? So we made up this thing that its impossible because my experience of brown will always be different than your experience of brown, and you know what? I don't know if that's true or not, do I? For all I know your experience of brown is exactly the same as mine! I don't know.
    What difference does it make, one way or the other? What does that have to do with objectivity? If you and I sit in the same room and say ``that's brown,'' it doesn't matter whether our experience of it is the same or not, does it?
    We could call that objective fact, isn't that right? Its brown.
    Subjectivity comes from saying that everything is about me. Subjectivity says, ``Its brown because I want it to be brown.'' Well, that's not true, is it? Its brown just because its brown: I don't know why.
    It has nothing to do with me. If I were somebody else, it would still be brown. That's what subjectivity is, okay? It says that ``I'm the subject of all things. The table is brown because I exist -- if I cease to exist it will stop being brown. There is no objective reality.''
    I'm the only thing that's real, in other words.
    Now that sounds silly about a table, doesn't it? But what about when you go into a restaurant and you do something that maybe you don't feel real good about, and the waitress is snappy at you and you say, ``The waitress is snappy at me because I did such and such.'' How do you know that?

    I make it up?

    You have absolutely no idea whether that's true. You have no idea what the waitress did before you got there; you have no idea what she's going to do when you leave. But you decide you know what's going on with that other person. That's called being subjective. ``This experience is about me, that other person has no objective reality. Everything they do is a response to me.''
    I really doubt it. I just don't think you're that important. The truth is that waitress probably doesn't even know you're there.
    I know that sounds silly, but its true.

    No, I'm aware of that.

    I did an experiment for a period of time when I lived -- ah, somewhere else, it doesn't matter -- where every now and again when the mood struck me, I would wait for someone to just to pause in the conversation for a response from me and I would say, ``Look at that blue frog on the wall, why do you suppose its blue?''
    And they would go on talking as though I'd just made a really cogent comment about their conversation, if I said it in the right tone of voice. Okay? In other words, they didn't hear a word I said.
    They heard the tone of voice that said, ``I agree with you,'' and they went on talking as though I'd agreed with them -- even though what I talked about was a blue frog on the wall. People often don't believe me when I say this, but I really did this.
    That's called subjective reality, isn't it? This whole thing is about me so if the person says something in a tone of agreement, then I don't have to listen to what they said.
    This is not two people having a conversation. This is this person sitting there and being about and for me. So I don't pay any attention to them.
    So I say what I say on purpose -- she probably doesn't even know you're there. The whole show is about her. The only thing you are is somebody who brings money in, that's it. The only other attention you might get out of her is: if she doesn't please you, then you probably won't leave as much money -- that's about it, unless something about you attracts her attention or interest.

    The question came up in another context. When there, there was a time when everyone thought objective was that the sun went around the Earth and is that different us from us calling that brown?

    Yeah, absolutely. Brown is the name for an experience that I have when a certain wavelength of light hits the eyeballs and gets translated into a nervous signal, isn't that right?

    Okay, and so we call it something.

    We call it brown. Brown is just a word for that experience. If I say it seems like the such and such is true, that's objective reality. If I say it is true, I'm being a fool.

    Okay. So, you're saying the surety of it is...

    Is called subjective again, isn't it?

    Okay.

    Its all about me and the way I perceive everything. There is no such thing as something outside of me. So, if it seems to be that way, then that's the way it is. And I go from the statement that, ``This is the way I perceive it" to ``This is the way it is", and I never see that that happened because I am subjective, its all about me.

    Okay, so, if we say, ``It seems, or current evidence is that we're going around the sun,'' that's a different way of stating it.

    Yep.

    And that's objective reality at the moment.

    Its describing the way that I perceive it. That's one kind of objective reality, okay? To stop making me be the center of the universe.
    Another kind is where I actually get into an altered state of existence, where I am able to perceive objective reality directly. Okay? That requires an entirely new state of existence. So, I've talked about how we can be objective without changing our state of existence.
    If I actually change my state of existence, it would never even occur to me that anything has to do with me. And I could actually perceive things objectively. I wouldn't even have to work at it and make silly statements like, ``it seems to me like'' and all that sort of stuff to try and overcome my subjectiveness, okay? So there is an alternate state of existence for human beings called objective consciousness.

    So, our culture, I mean we personally live in this subjective, self-focused state.

    Its a state of being and very few people ever get out of it.

    And the whole culture also does it.

    Right.

    And then we participate in the culture doing it as well.

    No. All that means is that lots of people agree about stupid things and call them true whether they are or not. And nobody notices, because they're all in this subjective state.
    So another way of saying that is that taboos only existed in the past -- because when they're in the present, they're just reality.

    I don't think I got that.

    Yeah? Well, lets talk about a modern taboo, then. Sexuality transmits AIDS. There is absolutely no objective evidence to prove that. Its a modern myth, that has been created by goodness knows whom, I don't know and I don't care. There is absolutely no objective evidence to demonstrate that. There is only statistical evidence. And you know what you can do with statistics -- anything you want, okay?
    That's called a myth. Except that its going on now, so we call it fact. In a few hundred years, it'll be a myth. When people find out what's really going on, then they'll look back and say, ``Why did they ever believe that silly story?''

    Okay, I understand what you're saying, 'cause that happens constantly. And we make great...

    Right. So we pretend as though we have no myths, we have no taboos and its just a lie -- and if you're really smart -- if you do experience objective awareness and you discover the myths and taboos of the society that you live in -- if you're really smart then you keep your mouth shut.
    Because, just like they always have, anybody who breaks the taboos is kind of fair game. It ain't no different today than its ever been, so you keep your mouth shut. Anyone with any kind of objective awareness, looks at AIDS and says, ``It is transmitted sexually (when it happens that way -- which isn't as often as believed) only as a side effect of what's really going on'' -- so, in other words, that its occasionally true, but usually not.
    That makes it not true in my book. Saying that something is occasionally true doesn't make it true, all right?

List of Questions

Table of Contents

Copyright © 1995, 1996 by inX.SendMailCompiled July 18, 1996.

Fax me a copy: Fax Mail me a copy: Postal Mail

Science of Man's Conscious Self-Evolution